An interview with Wafaa Saeed

“Desert Flower was able to show how much suffering is inflicted on women and girls by this treatment. She was able to say what it meant to her, how it affected her, how it shaped her life. Many young girls would not be able to articulate it, to have the courage…” Wafaa Saeed, Deputy Director, East and Southern Africa region with the Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs in New York discusses humanitarian action and the role of stories to raise awareness on the causes and consequences of humanitarian action.  

Tell me about your current job.

I am currently working in the Operations and Advocacy Division of the Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) in New York covering the East and Southern Africa region where I provide support to our field operations. This is the most important aspect of my job. The other pillars of the division are advocacy and outreach. It’s essential that we all have the same narrative on the crises we work on.

What does a typical day look like for you?

The first thing I do when I wake up is to sort through my emails from the countries I cover, media news and twitter, people from the academia that I follow, Crisis Action, to find out if there’s anything urgent. You see there’s the time difference. Mornings are important. I can interact with my colleagues in the country offices and if there are urgent issues to respond to, I can pick up the phone and call. And then we have these internal meetings, sometimes, they’re many, but working as part of a team, it’s necessary to share information and brainstorm. I also try to meet with external partners. 

Where else have you worked?

I started to work with the United Nations in my own country, Sudan. I moved to Somalia which was my first international experience, then Indonesia, Pakistan, Syria, and now New York.

Working in your own country, what was that like?

That was such an eye opener for me because I was born in Khartoum and I hadn’t seen much outside Khartoum. At the time, the media was really controlled by the government and gave a different narrative about the conflicts in the country, in the territories controlled by the armed groups. Working for the World Food Programme (WFP), I had the privilege to visit different parts of Sudan, and talk to people. My knowledge about what was happening changed and so did my perspective. It was quite empowering too as I no longer relied on newspapers and television. I could go back to Khartoum and challenge things, point out what wasn’t right. It gave me credibility in my advocacy for the people. I think that was good. But it hurt too. I believe that people should have equal rights, equal opportunities, and to see civilians in my own country lose their lives. I spoke to women who told me horror stories about being raped. It was very painful. I felt strongly about this, but I was also very much inspired that I could do something, send a different message. It was very rewarding for me to work as a national staff in my own country.

What wakes you up everyday and keeps you going?

I sincerely believe that we’re making a difference. It maybe not in every aspect of need, and there are areas where we need to do more and better. I’ve heard it from people. For example, when I worked with UNICEF in Syria, our Executive Director came to visit. We wanted him to go to an area where the conflict was active. We got government approval, but we wanted to make sure that the groups controlling the area would welcome us, and allow us to talk, and listen to the people. We were thanking them when this young man said, “We trust you.” They knew that we were helping civilians. There have been moments like this when people have said that we appreciate what you’re doing, you’re making a difference for us, you’re helping us. This is what motivates me. The belief that we’re doing something. 

How did you end up in the humanitarian sector?

When I was in middle school, I came across the United Nations Charter and it was a very special moment for me. I think I was 14 years old. I remember reading, We the peoples of the United Nations, united for a better world, about treating everybody with dignity and respect. These are values I feel strongly about. Everybody in the world, no matter what, must be treated with dignity and respect. I was drawn to this, and I remember thinking that I’d want to work for the United Nations. I studied architecture and worked for the private sector and became a Lecturer. Because I am an Architect, I thought I’d work for UN HABITAT. I applied for so many jobs, for everything, even a job as a Ware House Manager in Malakal. I was always hopeful that one day I’d be successful. Eventually, WFP employed me as a Programme Assistant. 

What is your greatest professional achievement?

When I was working with UNICEF in Somalia, there was a drought, a very bad drought. It was in the areas controlled by al-Shabaab. These areas had the highest levels of malnutrition. We had this community-based malnutrition programme. Mothers would come and we’d explain to them how to feed their babies and give them the special food they needed to survive. We also made sure that the other family members were also getting food. The children were very sick. I remember their arms, thin like pencils, and they had these big heads. It was like magic to see these children, whose mothers felt they were bringing them to the center to die, regain their strength, day by day. It made a difference for these families, and I was very proud to be part of this good story. I always remember this programme. It brought hope, and I can’t forget the look on these mothers faces. They moved me. Even in such despair, they managed to smile. 

What is your greatest professional fear?

Irrelevance, and here am talking generally about the United Nations. The UN has different roles. I believe the most important one is that of a convener, to bring everyone to the table, to create the space. To do that, we have to treat everyone equally, and have strong relationships with all the stakeholders. We can’t be biased. The UN is also a knowledge leader, a technical advisor, and an advocate for the rights of the people. At the end of the day, it’s about human rights, right holders and duty bearers, and the UN has to support both. 

What do you enjoy most about your job?

Being of service. Being part of a community that is of service. 

How would you define a humanitarian crisis?

A situation where people are impacted by a shock. This could be conflict, climate change, where peoples’ lives or overall wellbeing is at risk or risk of deteriorating significantly. It’s not just that they maybe affected. It could be the economy. Today, we’re seeing a number of overlapping shocks, and the national and local authorities, and communities don’t have the capacity to respond. Peoples’ rights being violated is often a characteristic of a humanitarian crisis. 

What about poverty? Does this fit within the definition of a humanitarian crisis?

Poverty is a development failure. There’s this issue of inequality around the world, between those who have, and those who don’t. If I think about poverty, the survival of poor people would not be threatened by their poverty; they’re not going to die because they’re poor. In some contexts, however, they’re excluded from governance, accessing basic services, and that is a problem. Then it’s a question of being discriminated against, excluded, not represented. Governments in many countries can address these challenges if they had the political will and policies in place or plans to address poverty. 

What are the main causes of humanitarian crises today?

Most of the large and complex humanitarian crises are a result of conflict. The international system hasn’t been very good at making peace and finding political solutions which leads to these humanitarian crises. We’re not addressing the political crises, the conflicts, so we end up with protracted crises, for example, South Sudan since 2013 when the current conflict erupted, Darfur since 2003. If people can get on with their lives, if they can farm, even if they don’t have much, get on with their normal lives. We’re just not good at making that happen. And during conflict, the laws of war aren’t respected, civilians aren’t spared. This is one problem. The second problem is the natural disasters. What we’re seeing with climate change is that these disasters are becoming more severe, more frequent, unpredictable and they’re not going to go away. 

What are the key consequences?

Disruption of peoples’ normal lives. You know you have a house, or a hut or a tent, you wake up, whatever you have, you have an animal you were going to sell in the market, you lose all this. Peoples’ livelihoods. They aren’t able to cope, to survive. Loss of life. I try to think about things within the sphere of human rights. So many lives lost, injured or impaired due to physical attacks. Women and girls continue to be specifically targeted and raped, sexually harassed. Even in contexts of natural disasters, they’re exploited because they’re in need. Your right to be respected, to consent if there’s a sexual act. Children are out of schools and lose their future. 

In terms of responding to all these problems, what do you see as the main challenges?

At the global level, there’s a deficit of humanity. We see an abundance of humanity and solidarity at the local level from communities and neighbors taking in refugees, displaced people. We have to be humbled by this. Powerful member states however are saying this isn’t their problem. Look at the refugee crisis. This global commitment to humanity is under threat. Also, our tools are no longer effective to protect civilians. Times have changed since 1945 when the United Nations was created following World War II. We still have a security-based approach to addressing protection problems despite evidence that this isn’t really working, and we need other kinds of solutions. And then, we’re not treating all suffering the same. We come up with people in need of assistance based on criteria we have agreed on, but we’re unable to provide them the assistance they need, and that’s difficult. 

How could these problems be resolved?

What gives me hope is that within the United Nations, there’s recognition at the highest level that we have to do things differently. We have to look for new coalitions and partnerships, and really be accountable to the affected people. We’re are not doing very well on this. This has to be a priority and we have to do better, and find a way to appeal to the public. At the end of the day, it’s the public that shapes the vision and actions of states as they’re the electorate. As the United Nations, we have to find a better way to communicate what we’re doing. The language of our reports isn’t appealing. I sincerely believe that the UN values, morality and humanity are shared globally. There’s goodness in the world, so many people wanting to do good. How can we broaden our audience? There are always solutions, we just have to find them. And it comes down to competency. At the leadership level, we have to make sure we have the best of the best because even with the most difficult governments, we should be able to find solutions, to build alliances, and that needs a lot of moral courage too.

What does advocacy mean to you?

It’s very much action related. It’s that you’d like somebody, someone, a government, a community or a person to do something to change a given situation. To convince whoever has to take action to take it to change something. Sometimes people think that we have to speak up, to say this is not right, but speaking out by itself isn’t enough: what is it that we need to change by speaking? 

And what is it that we want to change?

We need more humanity and solidarity across the globe. And it’s possible. There’s so much generosity. I’ve seen it everywhere I’ve worked. So many people would like to help. The question is how to do we turn this into a global value? I know it’s an aspiration. It has to be. For the people affected, persecuted all over the world, so we can bring that humanity, create empathy for them, and make their lives better. I want to believe in human solidarity because everyone can contribute to that bigger goal. But I can’t forget about protection which I link to accountability. There has been very little accountability or meaningful accountability for those who are guilty of atrocities. There are examples, Charles Taylor, for example, who was tried by the International Criminal Court. After so many years however, we have very few examples to show. Look at the people of Bosnia. We have to find a way to hold people who have committed atrocities accountable. This’d be a game changer. People knowing that there’ll be consequences. I think that’d be good. And of course, we have to advocate on climate change. The scariest thing is that we don’t even know how it’s going to happen.

What you are saying is that we need more humanity, more solidarity. Can we care more? Can we have more empathy, be more compassionate, more sympathetic? How do you get that? What is hindering that?

We need better evidence and facts to make a case that global humanity and solidarity is a win-win for all of us. How can we have stories that articulate that when you care about other people, the planet will be a better place for everybody? And we need champions, global leaders like late Nelson Mandela. I was reading an article on the occupied Palestinian territory crisis, the Palestinians and Israelis, and the writer made the case that in South Africa, apartheid was overcome because Nelson Mandela made it possible for everyone to win. Right now, it’s about winners and losers. We need global leadership, Mandelas who are compassionate to carry this message. We could have campaigns, the media, but the messenger is also important. For example, on the issue of refugees, we look at Angela Markel as a global leader who at her own risk and her political party took a principled stand on opening doors for the refugees.  

I’d like to talk about fiction/story telling. Can it help? What are some elements in fiction stories/storytelling that could raise awareness or motivate action to respond to a humanitarian crisis?

My experience with stories was as a child. When I grew up, I didn’t have a lot of books to read, but our grandmother used to tell us stories about our culture, our values, as a way of raising us. Reading is essential to me, but I read nonfiction. I read Desert Flower by Waris Dirie and Cathleen Miller. I actually come from Sudan, where more than ninety per cent of girls go through Female Genital Mutilation (FGM). I saw this as a child, the experiences of women around me, how this suffering followed them throughout their lives. It doesn’t go away. It doesn’t end there. It ends when you go to your grave. Waris telling her story was so important. She was very open. For example, I wouldn’t even want to tell people whether I’ve gone through FGM or not even though I believe the more we can talk about our problems, the more people can connect with us. Everyone is going through a struggle and when am going through that struggle and share it, people will connect. You become vulnerable but then people will realise that we’re are all struggling.

We can talk about non-fiction. What was it about Desert Flower that resonated with you? What did it teach you about a humanitarian crisis? 

Desert flower depicts what young girls go through at a very young age. It’s not just about FGM, but personal freedom, how girls are treated very differently from boys. It’s not about religion, it’s about culture. I was so touched by it. I’ll tell you something. I really liked cycling as a child. When I was thirteen years old my mother said, “No you cannot ride a bike. I asked why.” It’s not like she had a problem. It was about the neighborhood, the community. This need to conform. That’s a big burden. Women are often put in these very difficult situations. Desert Flower was able to show how much suffering is inflicted on women and girls by this treatment. Sadly, in many areas where we work, there’s so much sexual violence towards girls and women. Many people who read the book might look at it differently. I think mothers would look at it differently because Waris was able to say what it meant to her, how it affected her, and shaped her life. Many young girls would not be able to articulate it, to have the courage, and you know communication is a skill, a gift. We’re all not able to tell stories in such a compelling way.

In your work, tell me about a person affected by a humanitarian crisis or a situation you’ve experienced that has had the most profound effect on you.

When I was in Syria. In Homs, the old part of the city had been besieged. There was an agreement to evacuate women and children. Not the men between the age of 15 to 55 years. There was this family. A father and his three daughters. He was 40 years old, but he looked sixty years old. His oldest daughter, she must have been fourteen years old, is the one who affected me the most. Their story was that a mortar had killed his wife, their mother, and his youngest son, their brother, on the spot. They found them dead on the floor in the kitchen. You’d think that the father would take care of these three girls, but this girl, she was the one taking care of her father and sisters. There she was, smiling and hugging her sisters and father. I don’t know where she drew her strength from. She started drawing. Her drawings were very beautiful. They were of positive images. Her mother with her baby brother. Maybe she was thinking they were still a family. She was drawing with so much color. I recently lost my father, but she had lost her mother so young. How these disasters can shatter people’s lives. Before that, they were a normal family, going to school, they had their house, and now their life had been shattered, and for them to see that trauma. I thought she’ll never be a child anymore. I still think of her. There were so many heartbreaking moments that day that I wanted to cry. There was this other woman who had a cat and was afraid that people would eat her cat. There was nothing left to eat so people had started to eat dogs, pets. She was so relieved that she managed to save her cat. She called him Shaggour which means fair because he was a blondish cat.

What is your hope for the people affected by humanitarian crises?

People are more resilient than we think. They’re their main source of survival, and relief comes from their resilience, that they’re able to go on with life despite the difficulties. My hope is for them to maintain their resilience and hope. I don’t know whether with time it becomes too much, and you despair, and lose hope. For many mothers, their hope is to send their kids to school. We think it’s food, but they want a future for their children. And I hope that as humanitarian workers we do justice for them, for their dignity. We’re doing a better job of listening to affected people and asking questions, but we’re not taking sufficient action. People tell us what they want, and we continue to provide pre-determined assistance, and we lack the courage to go back and explain why we cannot do certain things. That’s not good enough. If we could change that. People know better than us what they want.

What can someone out there, someone reading this conversation, what can they do to make a difference?

Be a voice to call for global humanity and if you can’t do it yourself because you need a venue, a message, being a voice is not an easy thing, if you can’t do it yourself, join a coalition or a group, and support them to amplify their message.